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Domestic Intelligence.
SUPREME. CRIMINAL COURT.
THURSDAY.-Before Mr. Justice Stephen
and the usual Commission.
Michael O'Brien, Mary O'Brien, John
O'Hara, James O'Hara, Mary O'Hara, Mary
Ann O'Hara, and Michael Cantwell, were in-
dicted for receiving stolen property belonging
to various persons on the 18th January 1831,
at the Seven Hills, New South Wales, know-
ing the same to have been stolen.
John Walmsley sworn--Mr. Williams ob-
jected to the evidence of Walmsley being ta-
ken, on the ground of his being an attainted
felon under sentence of death, and that the
Governor's pardon produced was of no
weight, he, the Governor, having no power to
grant a pardon, that being vested only in the
King, and must pass the Great Seal before it
would he admitted as a legal instrument.
Mr. Therry took the same objections; they
were over-ruled by the Court, and the
Examination by the Attorney-General con-
tinued-My name is John Walmsley; I know
all the prisoners at the bar; I have known
them about 8 or 9 months, but I cannot swear
exactly to time; I have seen them frequently
within the last 8 or 9 months; they all lived
at the Seven Hills, save John and James
O'Hara, and they were backwards and for-
wards frequently; they had a farm at a place
called little Doual; Mrs. O'Brien, Mary
O'Hara, and Mary Ann O'Hara introduced me
to the male prisoners; they told me to come
again and bring them some prints, some cali-
coes, and other things which I had taken from
Mr. McQuade's cart; we had had conversa-
tion about that robbery, and John Donohoe
and William Webber were present at the time;
we promised to go back in a fortnight or three
weeks and bring them some prints and cali-
coes; they addressed themselves as much to
Webber and Donohoe as they did to me;
when we parted from them going on our jour-
ney towards the Cow-pastures, Donohoe was

shot by the Mounted Police; Webber and I
made our escape; this happened on Mr. Went-
worth's farm called Greendale, within a few
miles of the Cow-pastures; the mounted po-
lice halloed out to us, and asked us who we
were? just before sun-down in the evening;
we made them no answer, and they fired on
us directly; Donohoe was shot dead; Webber
and I made our escape, and got out on the
Liverpool-road; we had no communication
with the prisoners at the bar until about a
fortnight afterwards, when Webber and I went
again to the house of the prisoner O'Brien;
we saw the two girls first, Mary and Mary Ann
O'Hara, at the house, but we had left the
prints and calicos in the bush on Michael
O'Brien's land; the girls asked us where we
had the property? and we told them it was on
their ground close by the water-hole; the
girls then took the bucket and went down to
the water-hole for a bucket of water; we had
left them, and gone round to where the pro-
perty was, and were there when they came
down; the girls stopped so long in the bush
talking to us that Mrs. O'Brien came down to
see what was the matter; the girls gave the
bucket of water to Mrs. O'Brien, and they
took the prints and calicos up to the house;
there were 17 or 18 pieces of print and 2 pie-
ces of calico; when the girls took it to the
house we went round another way, and came
close up to the house, about 6 or 7 rod away
from it in the bush; we did not go into the
house at that time, as the girls told us we had
better stop in the bush until their godfather,
Michael O'Brien came home, as he would not
be long; Michael O'Brien came home soon
after, came into the bush to us, and we then
went into the house; he enquired about our
other comrade; he meant Donohoe; we talk-
ed some time in the bush before we entered
the house with O'Brien, and Webber put his
hand in his pocket and gave him a sterling
note; Michael O'Brien then asked us in, and
when we were in the house we sent him off to
Parramatta for some rum and gunpowder;
whiles we were drinking, James O'Hara and
another man named John Hughes came from
little Doual in a cart; as soon as James
O'Hara came in, the girls told him that we
were come, and were then in the bed-room
drinking; he came into us, and we sat up
drinking the greater part of the night, and
then lay down to rest; the next morning
James O'Hara and John Hughes went out to
the farm again, and took some of the prints
with them; they had heard of the robbery of
Mr. McQuade's cart, and asked us whether we
had done it? we told them we had, and that
the prints we then brought them formed part
of the robbery; it was Michael O'Brien asked
me about McQuade's robbery, and Mary,
Mary Ann, and James O'Hara were present
when we mentioned having robbed the cart;
we stopped at the house two days after James
O'Hara and Hughes left to go to the farm;
during the time we were at the house, I saw
the female prisoners cut up some of the prints
and makegowns and bed quilts of them; there
was nothing else given to them on that visit;
about the time of the Parramatta races we
returned to O'Brien's house, and we then saw
John O'Hara, Mary O'Hara, and Mary Ann
O'Hara, who came from the house with two
buckets and a washing tub for water; we were
in the bush and hailed them, when all three
of them came to us; we took John O'Hara to
be his brother James, and I said, " is that
James "' he replied, " no, it is John;" I had
never seen him before; we sat down, and I
gave John O'Hara eighteen shillings to go
for half a gallon of rum; the girls and John
asked us up to the house, and told us that
Michael O'Brien and James O'Hara were at
home; we went round the bush and went in
to the house, when Michael O'Brien put the
saddle on the horse and went away for the
rum; I had a watch which I had robbed Mr
Crawford of on the first clay of the races; I
believe Mr Crawford's christian name is Ro-
bert; it was a silver watch with gold chain
and seals; John O'Hara asked me for the
watch, and I gave it to him, telling him to be
careful of it, as it belonged to Mr. Crawford;
he answered, " never mind, I will take care
he never gets it any more, I will take care of
it;" Webber had another watch which be-
longed to Mr. Airds, the Superintendent of
Public Works at Parramatta; Webber and I
had robbed Mr. Aird of the watch, which was
a silver one, on the same morning that we
robbed Mr. Robert Crawford; Webber gave
the watch to James O'Hara, and at the same
time told him that he had robbed Mr. Aird of
it; Webber had a hat which was also taken
from Mr. Aird, and begave that; James
O'Hara; it was a black beaver hat; there was
also a black hat belonging to Mr. Crawford
given by me to John O'Hara, and I gave James
O'Hara a sovereign; on the second visit, both
myself and Webber stopped in the house four
or five days, during which time, we ate and
drank in the house, and when we were going
away, they gave us flour and provisions to carry
with us; all the family was there then; we
went there a third time, but I cannot pretend to
mention the time as we were there so fre-
quently I cannot distinguish the periods; On
one of the times we visited them, we had stop-
ped Mr. Mowatt on the Liverpool road and
taken a large blue top coat, a black coat, a
gold watch, two dollars in money, a Leghorn
bonnet, and other things; of these, I gave the
gold watch to Michael O'Brien, who said he
was an emancipated man; that he would sell
the gold watch, and that the money he got
for it would take him out of the country;
the black coat was also given to Michael
O'Brien; the coat had been taken from Mr.
Francis Mowatt; O'Brien had the newspaper
in which the robbery of Mr. Mowatt was
described, and upon reading the account we
told Michael O'Brien, it was the same man
to whom the things belonged; Webber gave
the Leghorn bonnet to Mary O'Hara, and the
lining of the coat to Mary Ann O'Hara; the
girls were present when I said that I had rob-
bed them; the lining of the coat was cut up
and made a skirt of, while I was in the room;

we slept there that night, and always stopped
at the house two or three days each time that
we went; I cannot recollect the day nor the
month in which we robbed Mr. Mowatt, or
Mr. McQuade; we took a great number of
pieces'of prints and calicoes from Mr. Mac-
quade's cart, part of which we took as I have
stated to O'Brien's, and the other remained in
Dr. Harris's bush; it was on the Windsor
road we robbed Mr. McQuade's cart and took
50 pieces of print, 5 pieces of calicoe, rum,
tea, and sugar from it; we also robbed Mr.
McLeay's cart on the other side of Liverpool;
it was early in the morning, on a Saturday
as they were returning from the market;
cannot remember the month;it was long be-
fore harvest; we took two rolls of canvas,
which we carried to Michael O'Brien's, I be-
lieve (but cannot swear so) that it was made
into bags, as I saw some canvas of the same
sort made into bags at the Police Office; we
also robbed Mr. Henry Hart's cart, and took
a chest of tea and some other things.
Cross examined by Dr. Wardell-I have
seen that pardon yesterday, but have never
had it in my possession; I believe it was read
to me in the cells by the Sheriff, but I have
quite forgotten what he said at that time upon
the subject; I won't give an answer as to
whether I thought little or much about it; I
did care about it, for I thought my life was
saved when he read it; as I believed it to be
a respite; I have forgotten every word that
was said with respect to the pardon in the
cells; I understood when it was read to me,
that I was free from all the robberies I had
committed in the Colony ; I understood that
I was released from all the burglaries, mur-
ders, and robberies that I might have com-
mitted in the Colony; I cannot tell the fa-
vourable circumstances mentioned in the
pardon; but I think they are the informations
I gave; I understood that it was in conse-
quence of my promising to give information
against the parties that I received my pardon.
I had no promises made to me for giving in-
formation against the parties concerned with
me; what information I have given, was to
do the country good at large, and myself in
particular; I do not know whether I should
have received my pardon if I had refused to
give evidence, but I do not think I should ; it
was in expectation that I should give evidence
against the parties that I received my pardon;
I was encouraged by the pardon to give evi-
dence; I did understand that all my crimes
were covered by the pardon, but not my sins;
there is a deal of difference between crimes
and sins.
Dr Wardell-True, I stand corrected Sir.
Continued-I understood the pardon was
given to induce me to give evidence against the
parties; I was, I should think, to lose the
benefit of the pardon, if I did not give my
evidence; I had undertaken to give my evi-
dence for the pardon, and expected that all
prosecutions would drop for what I have done
in the Colony; I have not been tried for rob-
ing Mr Crawford, or Mr. McQuade, or Mr.
Mowatt; I won't answer to the question of
who shot Mr. Clements; I am not afraid to
answer you, but will not until ordered by His
Honor; I do not know anything about blowing
a constable's arm off; I would have split if I
had been told that I should be prosecuted for
the robberies after I had given my evidence;
our acquaintance with the prisoners commen-
ced through Donahoe; it could not be a rob-
bery at O'Brien's house, as we took nothing,
nor was it our intention to rob the house when
we went; the only thing we went for the first
time, was a little flour, which was given to us
by Mrs. O'Brien, and the two girls; this was
the first time they saw me there; if it had not
been given to us, there is no doubt we should
have taken it by some means; there were
three of us at that time, and we had no fight;
there are some houses thereabouts; a man
named Brien lives about a hundred rod from
their house, Brien's house can be seen from
O'Brien's, the ground being clear between
them ; I cannot say how far the bush is from
Michael O'Brien's; there are some other per-
sons live about a mile from them, but I do not
know their names; if we liked we could have
robbed and murdered them before any assist-
ance came; we never had any more with us
but myself, Webber and Donahoe; we had a
fowling piece and a brace of pistols each; I
do not know where John Hughes is; he was
at the Police Office, and was discharged; we
were not strong enough to frighten the whole
of the prisoners at the bar; we have often
been in the kitchen and our arms lying in the
bed-room; if they wished, they could have
taken us treacherously any time; we have been
in all parts of the house, and were not at all
times armed; we never expected to be taken
by them; we had a bad character in the neigh-
hourhood as blood-thirsty men we should
not have served them out if they attempted
to betray us, and we had escaped; I have no
revengeful feelings; I was first led away into
the bush by some men who were in Plumley's
gang; I was in that gang; I should not have
liked to served out Plumley for his treatment
to me; he did not treat me kindly or other
wise; he treated me the same as other men;
we were daily risking our lives to support
them; we took the property to these houses
because they could tell us where the constables
and soldiers were, and they gave us tea and
sugar, and flour; we gave them the property
out of charity; if men have not friends when
they are "in thle bush", they will not reign
long; I do not know of the other people to
whom I gave part of the property; they are
poor people, and were objects of my charity;
John Hughes lives out at Big Doural; they
invited us to bring the plunder to their house,
as soon as they were acquainted with us; I
was tried and cast for death, and lay in the
condemned cell expecting to be executed, but
I did not expect to be saved when I gave the
information; I never sent my compliments to
Mr. McLeay, to say I would split if I was let
off, nor did I ever hear that Webber did; I
gave my evidence against the prisoners in ex-
pectation of receiving my pardon.

(Dr. Wardell here took objections to the
evidence of the witness Walmsley, as to its
admissibility, which were over-ruled by the
Court, and the examination proceeded.)
Thomas Quigley- I am a Serjeant in the
Mounted Police; I went to the premises of
Michael O'Brien on or about 14th January
last; I saw two of the female prisoners or
all three; Captain Forbes was with me, He
ordered me to search the dwelling and pre-
mises. He went with me; I took possession
of two canvass bed-ticks, one old black coat,
one gown, three bed covers, 1 pistol, 1 fow-
ling piece, and 8 canvass sacks; (I delivered
them to the Police Office in Sydney) I marked
all the articles and should know them again;
I did not see Michael O'Brien there ; (pro-
perty produced) these are the articles I found
at the prisoner O'Brien's house; the female
prisoners said they were O'Brien's property.
Benjamin Hodghen-I am Chief Constable
of Windsor. On the 17th January last, I pro-
ceeded to the house of Michael O'Brien, and
saw Mary O'Hara, Mary Ann O'Hara, and
Mary the wife of Michael O'Brien; also the
old man Michael Cantwell. I picked up va-
rious patterns of prints, which were lying on
the ground. I then commenced searching the
house, and found a bonnet box under the bed
in which was a Leghorn bonnet. I said to the
constable that was with me, that it was Mrs.
Mowatt's bonnet? I enquired of the girls
where they got the bonnet? they replied, that
Mr. O'Brien had brought it from Sydney; I
then went into the kitchen, and noticed a white
serge petticoat on Mary O'Hara, and I then
returned to the bed-room, and found some
remnants of surge; that appeared to have
been cut from a coat. I put them back into
the basket, and I returned to Windsor for a
warrant to apprehend the two girls for the
petticoat and the bonnet. O'Brien was not at
home at this time, and the females told me they
thought he was in prison at Sydney. In conse-
quence of Mary Ann O'Hara being very un-
well, I did not remove her at that time, be-
fore leaving the house, I called Mlary Ann
(the one that was ill) into a room with myself
and the constable, and put the door to.
I said to her, "it is evident those bushrangers
have been in the habit of coming here, and I
request you to tell me the truth." She said,
she never saw them there but once, and that
was when they took the flour away. I asked
her, where she had seen them then? she an-
swered, at a slip pannel just at the back
of the house. I then asked her if she
knew them, and she said yes. Who were
they said I? she answered Walmsley and
Webber. I asked her if they were armed, and
she said yes, that they had each a brace of
pistols and a gun. I then enquired what
they said to her; and she replied, they al-
ways enquire first, whether the constables have
been here, and the last-time I saw them, Mary
O'Hara was with them, and Michael O'Brien
brought 7 pieces of print and one piece of
calico from them; I then went to Windsor
for a warrant and on my return next day,
found that the two women had been con-
veyed away by the police, also the box. I
then made further search, and found one
Indian print quilt, 3 new calico sheets, 6 links
of a steel watch chain, 1 white serge petticoat,
a quantity of white thread, I roll of narrow
white ribband, 1 new India table cloth, 1 new
calico shirt, 1 pair of men's white stockings
marked W. Croft, 3 pair of woollen stockings,
1 pair of flannel drawers, 1 red Indian print
gown, 7 pair of men's gloves, 1 small fancy
box with a watch paper in it, 4 gold brooches,
1 old paper box with a tooth pick and some
other other instruments, I brought away these
things, and gave them up the Police in Sydney.
I got permission to see Walmsley, and in-
consequence of information from him I found
17 pieces of prints, on Dr. Harris's estate,
four pieces of calico, and few other things.
Cross-exumined by Dr. Wardell, but nothing
material elicited.
John Skinner-I am a constable in Syd-
ney. Both the young women were given
into my charge. Mr. Thorn and Mr. Jilks told
me to take the Leghorn bonnet off the head
of the young woman, who is now holding her
head down with a straw bonnet on. Her
name I believe is Mary O'Hara. I also have
a hat which I took from the old Gentleman
there with a white head. I believe his name is
Michael O'Brien. The hat and bonnet pro-
duced are the same.
Michael McQuade-I am a general dealer,
and reside at Windsor. In August last, I
loaded two carts in Sydney to send to Wind-
sor. In one cart there was a puncheon of
rum, a crate of English Delph, 50 pieces of
Bengal and India print, 5 pieces of calico, and
a quantity of other articles. I did not go
with the carts myself, but sent a man who is
now here, named James Quinn. I saw some
of the same description at the Police office at
Sydney and Windsor. They were Bengal
print and calico, but I cannot swear to them.
They were the common run of Bengal prints
and calicoes.
James Quinn-In August or September
last I lived in Sydney; I know the last witness
Michael McQuade, and went with a cart con-
taining his things to Windsor; about three
miles and a half from Windsor I was stopped
by three men and taken off the road into the
bush; Walmsley presented his fowling-piece
to me; I know the other two; they were Do-
nahoe and Webber; they took 50 pieces of
Indian print, 5 pieces of calico, about 40lb. of
sugar, and half a gallon of rum; I saw the
things when I took them in charge from
McQuade; the things now produced are of
the same description as those I lost, but I
cannot swear to them.
Francis Mowatt-I was stopped on the Li-
verpool-road in the month of August last by
Walmsley and Webber; I lost a great variety
of wearing apparel amongst which was a
large blue cloak lined with white shaloon or
serge; I also lost a bonnet belonging to Mrs.
Mowatt; I should know the serge again, for
when on board the ship my servant spilt a
quantity of oil on it, and I think I can swear

positively to it; there are also the marks of
the loop holes which were on my cloak. There
might certainly be similar serge, and it might
be, similarly stained ; I am not so positive as
to the bonnet as I am to the serge; I cannot
swear positively to it, but I think it is it.
James Butler-I am a government man to
Mr. McLeay; I was travelling home from
market about 6 o'clock in the morning on
the 23rd October, and was stopped by two
men about 2 miles from Liverpool; the dis-
cription of the men answers that of Walmsley
and Webber; three bolts of canvas were ta-
ken from me; the canvas produced resembles
that lost by me.
Mary Ann Evans-I altered a Leghorn
hat into a bonnet for Mrs. Mowatt; I should
know it again; I believe this to be the bonnet.
E. C. Atkinson-I was robbed on the Wes-
tern road on the 18th of last November, about
three miles from Parramatta, by Walmsley
and Webber; they took from me a brown
frock coat, black waistcoat, shirt, neckerchief,
pocket handkerchief, and a watch with steel
link chain, and silk watch-guard; I saw a
shirt similar to the one I lost, at the Police Of-
fice, but the name was cut out; I also saw a
chain at the Police Office.
John White-I was robbed by Walmsley
and Webber of a variety of things, about two
miles from Mr. Kelly's, on the Windsor Road;
I could not swear to any of the articles again;
this is the good gentleman that took the things
out of my cart, and the other good gentleman
knocked a tooth down my throat; but if it
had not been for this chap (Walmsley) I should
not have been robbed; I have a handkerchief
belonging to this good gentleman at home,
which he left in my cart; it is long enough
and strong enough to hang him; and to tell
you the truth, I should have no objection to
have the hanging of him - (much laughing).
Walmsley recalled-'The prints produced
are the ones I took from Mr.McQuade's cart,
and gave to the prisoners; I saw two butchers
come to O'Brien's house when I was there; I
saw Wilkes through the key hole; they came
to buy some cattle and an entire horse from
Mr. O'Brien; Mr. Wilkes brought a small
bottle of brandy from Parramatta with him;
in the night Michael O'Brien and the butchers
went out to a man named Donald Brien whom
lives on the next farm to them; during the
time they were away, Webber and I went
into the orchard and stopped there until I was
gone; there was a man named Muldoon there
and his wife with him; Muldoon had a dog,
and when the butchers came first to O'Brien's,
as soon as Wilkes got out of the gig, the dog
seized him and tore his thigh; Mrs. Muldoon
mended Wilkes' trowsers; Muldoon is a fa-
mer, living on Mr. Palmer's farm; we were
in the bed room, and the girl came to the
window and whispered to us.
William Wilkes-I am a butcher by trade,
and know the prisoners at the bar; I have
repeatedly been at their place; I think I was
there a little before Christmas with a butcher
named Vowel; I went at that time to buy
some cattle and a horse; I was attacked by a
dog who tore my trowsers; they were mended
by a female who was there, but I do not know
her name.
Cross-examined-I saw no person there
except the family; I was in three rooms; I
went into one room to shift my trowsers,
but I can not say whether it was the girls'
bed-room; I saw nothing more than at
other times; if there had been any one there,
I think, from the intimacy I have with the
family, I should have observed it from their
looks or behaviour; the accident happened out
of doors, and might be more readily observed
from the bush than from the house; I went
into the bed-room, and when I came out, I
sat beside the person who mended my trow-
sers; the room into which I went, was con-
nected with the sitting room, but the door of
the other room into which I did not go, did
not look into the sitting room; I am positive
that there was no person in the bed room, and
do not think any person could have seen me
through the key-hole; I went to a neighbour
of O'Brien's after I had been there about two
hours, which might also have been seen from
the bush; I did not see the girls go out, nor
did any whispering occur; I know the whole
of the family; the girls I think, are under the
control of Mr. O'Brien; I can not swear that
Mr. O'Brien knocks under to Mrs. O'Brien; I
should think he wore the breeches; the young
men also are under his control.
By Mr. Moore--There are five rooms I think
in the house; there are five doors which look
into the front room, counting the back and
front doors.
By a Juror-I was not in all the rooms;
there is the front door, back door, kitchen
door, bed room door, and another door, all
looking into the sitting room; I went to a
neighbour's house that night and O'Brien went
with me.
By Dr, Wardell-The orchard was close to
the hut, and two bushrangers would be likely
to plant themselves there on the look-out for
me when I left the house; bushrangers are
generally FOND of butchers, as they know
they generally carry a little money with them,
they might have been looking out for us.

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